"Beautifully executed, haunting and lyrical"
"A poignant, and seductive novel"
''The Tiger's Wife, in its solemn beauty and unerring execution, fully justifies the accolades that Ms Obreht's short fiction inspired"
Let's see what "thebusywomen" feel at the end of the month!!!
Good luck Sue, I know you have misgivings of my choice this month!!!!
Here are some questions to ponder while reading, [they were in the back of my book].
Does old age always 'harden beliefs?
'If you are making your journey in a hurry, you are making it poorly.' Do you agree with the old men?
What is the 'difference between the rituals of comfort and the preventive rituals that come at the end of life'?
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Hello Ladies,
ReplyDeleteHope all is well with you both and the house moving is as stress free as possible.
I have surprised myself by how much I have enjoyed reading The Tiger's Wife and by how much I enjoy the use of myth and fable to describe people's reactions to events and situations.
The story's setting in the former Yugoslavia fits in well with this as it has a culture of superstition entrenched in its past and also how much of the news of the war was passed when it was too dangerous to tell of actual events.
"If you are making your journey in a hurry, you are making it poorly.' Do I agree, yes, but only because I am a certain age!!!!!
I find the paragraph before this more enlightening to the quirkiness of old men. 'taking their time,stopping to wave the fat lambs over, or to take off their shoes and look for bits of gravel that have been bothering them for hours.'[this is so like my dad].
I have remarked before about my fondness for old men. I have spent a lot of time in the company of my father and his brother's listening to their childhood stories and I find it endlessly entertaining and sometimes quite fanciful, perhaps this is why I enjoyed this book so much.
I liked Obreht's insights into our humanness and our reactions to things we don't understand or that frighten us.
Luka's wife I've read was her metaphor for the wider conflict in the Balkan's and how fear and prejudice can ignite imaginations and fuel hatred given certain conditions.
I was also intrigued how Obreht used the Deathless Man and his meetings with Grandfather to illustrate the ways some people deal with death throughout their lives.
Grandfather's first meeting with Gavran Gaile when he was a young man he demanded proof and was angry and unbelieving, with each meeting his acceptance grew until they made friends over a shared meal and finally when he was very ill he went in search of death. Do you agree ??????
The relevance of "The Jungle Book'??
Is it to signify the Grandfather's high moral standing ? [the jungle book was used by the scouts to teach morals to young cubs],or have I missed something there?
The Tiger's Wife seems to me to be mostly written in parables and I feel I could read it again and discover more hidden meanings. I found it so enjoyable and fascinating.
Hello Ladies!
ReplyDeleteHope you’re both well. I finished The Tiger’s Wife and I have to say I really enjoyed it.
Nancy, I feel that I took too much of this book literally. I see much of the symbolism you’ve mentioned now. But finding new meanings in a novel makes me enjoy it even more!
You have heard the adage, “Life is a journey, not a destination.” I suppose that, 'If you are making your journey in a hurry, you are making it poorly’, is the Balkan’s version of this saying. Or maybe just a version Obreht made up. Either way I noticed the quote before I read our book club page and really liked it. I don’t know if it’s something we miss as children but time flies so fast. I remember as a child everything seemed to take forever to happen. Now as an adult, I find things are over almost immediately. I blinked and my wedding was over. I blinked and my nephew turned 3! I try my hardest now not to say things like, “I can’t wait.” Now I try and savor the waiting because everything is over too fast. Or from a more literal view, we drove all over Greece. Yes places like Epidaurus and Meteora were beautiful. But so were the hillsides along the mountains we climbed. There were so many places we stopped and enjoyed on our way to those major attractions. If we had hurried more, we have missed some of those beautiful little stops along our journey.
One thing I particularly loved about this novel was how Obreht wove together the other stories in her tale; how the lives of Gavran, Luka, Amana, and the Tiger’s wife all seemed to collide in a seemingly accidental way. If Gavran and Amana had never fallen in love, would Luka have never brought home the deaf mute girl? And if she had not been in that little village, what would have become of the tiger? Would it have found another “wife”? Would Natalia’s grandfather have been the object of the tiger’s affection?
I am not sure exactly about the rituals of comfort and the rituals of prevention as in reference to this novel. However, I think I would classify Grandfather’s ritual of sorting the seeds as a ritual of comfort. Then later his ritual of exercising in the living room may have been one of prevention. (Although Natalia’s description of the exercise doesn’t sound particularly strenuous.)
Sue, how do you feel you fared with this novel? Was it easier to get through since you started it once? Were there parts you didn’t care for before but enjoyed more now?
I have to say, I was truly hoping Natalia would meet Gavran. I would have loved to know if Gavran and Grandfather had met up one more time. Had Gavran waited with Grandfather until the end came? Did he finally give Gavran the copy of the jungle book? What comfort would have been provided to Natalia to know her grandfather was not alone in his final hours?
One of my favorite moments in the novel was when Grandfather and Natalia followed the elephant in the empty streets of town. Grandfather says something that I find very powerful. “The story of this war- dates, names, who started it, why,- that belongs to everyone. Not just the people involved in it, but the people who write newspapers, politicians thousands of miles away, people who’ve never even been here or heard of it before. But something like this-this is yours. It belongs only to you. And me. Only to us.” It made me think to myself, “Is there a moment from my life that I ‘keep’ to myself? Have I had such a moment that I can always remember and know it was just mine?” And I realized I do. You don’t have to share it specifically, but can either of you think of such a moment?
Hello Ladies,
ReplyDeleteThank you Katie for reminding me of our wonderful adventures in Greece and for asking the question. Do I have a moment that I can always remember as mine?. For me it began a flood of memories about times and places I hadn't thought of for a long time.
I also enjoyed how Obreht wove the character's stories together, I love it when a book can surprise me and I found The Tiger's Wife did this for me.
I believe even though Natalia didn't meet Gavran she would have been comforted by the fact that The Jungle Book was gone, symbolising Grandfather's surrendering his pledge and that Gavran was with him. Natalia's own story was based in reality so it would have been impossible to meet the myth.
I have so many dog eared pages in this novel that I loved and was going to comment on. I was continually surprised by Obreht's insights into human nature. Notably how retelling of stories can change to suit the one do the telling and even how Natalia's mother says of ourselves when we retell a traumatic event it is somehow different than what really happened or what someone else may have seen . I guess it questions the whole concept of truth.
I’m so sorry, ladies, to have taken so long to write. One reason is I am sitting amongst a pile of boxes because in a couple of hours someone is taking the shelves from this study room to the new house. Some of the books have already gone, and it all looks a little desolate. Another reason has been my reluctance to re-read the book at all. I was a little economical with the truth in my comments when the title was chosen. I’d read it all and discussed it with others who had failed to finish it and found the novel very unsatisfactory.
ReplyDeleteRe-reading it and reading your thoughtful and insightful responses re-enforces how glad I am to be part of this book club.
As I started re-reading, I was reminded of Nancy’s comment on The Land of the Moon about isolated communities and beliefs. And I reminded myself that the prejudice, cruelty and bleakness in the book is an author describing things as they are. Just because I’d prefer things to be otherwise is no reason to get cross with the book: very distressing, nevertheless. I’d have preferred a little more specificity about which part of Yugoslavia different people came from, and indeed about the conflict as a whole – but then the universality of the novel is perhaps enhanced by this lack of specific detail. More facts would have resulted in a journalist’s report. The author is discussing much more than that – as you so rightly point out, ladies.
And, of course, there’s the title: what to make of it? I like the idea of it being a metaphor for fear and prejudice. I feel I’ve missed something about the link between the tiger in “The Jungle Book” and the connection with Luka. It would take a whole essay to explore that.
As ever, my desire for some clarity interfered with my appreciation of the author’s achievement. But certainly, as you point out, Nancy, truth is elusive: “The truth depends on where you’re standing”, and heaven knows people in Yugoslavia stood/stand in lots of different places.
Nevertheless, I feel it could have been better structured – it sometimes seems to be a series of short stories rather than a cohesive novel. But you can’t take away from the maturity of the writer’s interpretation of life and its events. She must have been in her twenties when she wrote this. And she must have moments she keeps to herself. I have a few, relating to a sense of place and identity and to responses to seeing large mammals in the wild. (Not a tiger.) Now you’ve mentioned it, Katie, I think I ought to try and write them down, but perhaps I’d lose them in the writing. She’s a wonderfully descriptive writer.
My second reading has made me appreciate the book more. I can see why your copy is dog-eared, Nancy, and, like Katie, I found new meanings. It would take months to explore all the ideas included here.
Certainly, I recommend a third reading.
Just another thought - thanks, Nancy, for pointing out that the whole thing could be seen as the story of one's relationship with/attitudes to death. At the start, people are digging up bodies so the living have peace. Given what is to come, that's a very thought provoking order of events. Is the digging up of the bodies a ritual of prevention? We could talk about the ideas here for hours. I've forgotten who recommended this, but thank you.
ReplyDeleteHello Ladies,
ReplyDeleteHow are you both?
Katie, I have been reading about the heat wave you are experiencing and the power outs from the severe storms, I hope all is well with you and yours.
Sue, I trust the moving is going as well as can be expected and you and Jay are finding much to laugh about. ha ha
In my copy of The Tiger's Wife their are disscussion questions at the end. I have already posted a few before I'd read the book. I was re reading a few more of them and found the answers elusive.Please don't feel you need to answer, I just thought you might like something else to ponder.
Why do people paint Bis the dog all the time?
Why,in Darisa's dream,were the tiger and his wife always eating heads?
and finally,
Do you need to see to know?
As you remarked Sue, there are hours of conversations about this book.
My question on the rituals of comfort and the preventive rituals that come at the end of life,I feel in the In Brief chapter at the back of my book gave me slight insight into perhaps of what Obreht means.
Grandmother talks to grandfather about the forty days of the soul after death,certainly a ritual at the end of life. "Superstition he called it in his youth, but he argued against it less as he got older." Perhaps rituals of comfort are for ourselves and rituals that come at the end of life are for those we leave behind to find comfort.
Echoing Nancy, I do hope all is well with you and your family, Katie. It will be no consolation to you to know that we are having the flip side of your weather and have had the wettest June since records began. However, this pales into insignificance in comparison with what's happening in parts of your country.
ReplyDeletePersistent rain has not helped the ongoing moving process. Flooring and carpets are down - we await the arrival of the man to install the blinds tomorrow.
I have the same copy of the book as you, Nancy - and can only address the third question: I do need to see to know, which means I will only ever know very little or nothing, given it's hard to know what truth is, if indeed it exists, as we discussed earlier. Leaps of faith come hard.
But as life draws in, I think one wants to observe the rituals which provide comfort and perhaps a safeguard. As you pointed out, Nancy, Grandfather has been dealing with and changing his attitude to death all his life. His increased tolerance of what he had once regarded as superstition might be a ritual of prevention - to secure a better after life? Or he could have learned from the deathless man that nothing matters so he might as well give his wife some comfort. It takes a really selfless person to try to provide for the comfort of others in the face of death. But Grandfather is an amazing character.
I'm trying to read sections of the book again - in between packing boxes. Some sections, like the story of Luka, could just stand alone.
Enjoy "I Am Nujood", ladies.
It's quite exciting to hear our little heat wave has made national news! I personally am enjoying the heat very much! Thankfully no power outages. Sue, I hope your part of the world dries up a bit soon.
ReplyDeleteNancy, I’m always underlining quotes in my books as I read. I also write little notes in the margins.
In regards to rituals of prevention (I maybe echoing some of your thoughts, Sue), I think as we grow and mature, our perceptions of importance change. Grandfather may, as a young man, have rallied against such superstitions as the ritual of the forty days. But as he got older, he may have found more important issues to concern himself with than that of his wife’s beliefs. Nancy, you say that Natalia’s world is based in reality and the story of Gavran is fiction. Maybe the story of the deathless man was a means through which Grandfather prepared Natalia for her role as a physician and the unfortunate reality of losing patients. It could also have been a means for Grandfather to prepare Natalia for the inevitable future when he would pass away. He told of his gradual acceptance of death and maybe tried to teach that same acceptance to his granddaughter.
I know you mentioned this, Nancy, but I really love this quote because of how true it is:
“My mother always says that fear and pain are immediate, and that, when they’re gone, we’re left with
the concept, but not the true memory- why else, she reasons, would anyone give birth more than once?”
I can’t remember exactly how bad varies injuries from my childhood hurt; only that they were painful. It’s funny how the physical agony seems like it will last forever and then the next day it’s barely a fleeting memory. I also find it humorous that years ago my grandmother told me that she forgot all the pain of child birth when she held my mother. She didn’t recall the pain until she went into labor years later with my aunt. My grandmother said, “ And suddenly you remember how awful that pain was, and you think: Why did I do this again?” That makes me chuckle.