While I await my copy of The Red Tent,[ apparently its arrival is imminent according to fishpond.com.au], I have reread the story of Dinah in Genesis.
It sounds like it will be an interesting novel, I wonder if it will be as gruesome as the Bible story.
Last month's novel was a pleasure to talk about with you both, as always our discussions add so much more to my reading experience and I really enjoy seeing things from our different perspectives.
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I guess I’m the first to reply! If either of you ladies isn’t finished reading, I don’t think anything I have written will spoil your further reading. I’m sorry if all this seems jumbled, I was just overwhelmed with the difference in culture and the time period. I found many character flaws in Jacob that seemed so contrary to what I remember from the bible. I’m not sure if this was because of our narrator, Dinah, or because of the poetic license that Diamant may have taken in the writing.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that Jacob does not force his wives to worship the one god of his fathers. He allows them to be polytheistic. As long as his sons worship the proper god, he does not care whom his daughter praises. It seems that Jacob views the women as an inferior group and therefore does not hold them to the same rules he applies to his sons in their worship.
One portion of the novel I do not understand is why did there seem to be a need for Jacob to sleep with Bilhah and Zilpah? Leah was pregnant. Why was there a need to force Zilpah to lay with Jacob? Zilpah seemed to have no interest in having intercourse with Jacob and she never did again (unless I missed a moment). Jacob survived many years of celibacy, or intercourse with Rachel, while Leah was pregnant. Leah gave Jacob the bulk of his progeny. Rachel, who was Jacob’s love, gave him children too. So I do not understand why Jacob could not simply keep Bilhah and Zilpah as handmaidens to his wives. When Jacob introduces his sons from Bilhah and Zilpah to Esau, it sounds like they are second class members of the family. Jacob distinguishes between his sons from his “wives” and his sons from his wives’ “handmaids”. This just seems so degrading to Dan, Gad and Asher.
The one thing I find most sad about the story of Jacob is how poorly Leah is treated, whether it’s the version from the bible or from Diamant. Leah does so much for the family, for Jacob, all for their survival but she is never as loved as Rachel. Under Diamant’s telling of this tale, Jacob knows which sister he gets married to. It seems to speak little of him that he is willing to take whoever is placed into his bed.
The thing I loved most in this novel was the harmony among the women. Despite the tiffs between Leah and Rachel, there was always such unity during their time together in the red tent. In addition, the bond between these women and their gods seems much deeper than the connection Jacob had to his god. Although this could be because our narrator is Dinah and she does not see much from the males’ perspective. I loved how the child rearing was the responsibility for all the wives. Dinah was so loved by all four women despite whose biological daughter she was.
(I apparently had too much to say and couldn't fit it all in one post)
DeleteWhat did you ladies think of the difference between the wives of Jacob and the Canaanite women in regard to menstruation and the breaking of the hymen? The mother of Inbu, wife of Levi, took the blood stained sheets to show Jacob as proof of her daughter’s virginity. Meanwhile Leah and the others broke Dinah’s hymen and spilled her blood into the earth. Rebecca implies that Tabea was left alone during her first menstruation, while Dinah is spoiled with wine, sweet cakes, and foot rubs. (I wish I’d gotten treatment like that when I first began menstruation. Haha.)
I find the part after Shalem’s death so powerful. Dinah comes out with a goddess like power and curses Jacob so terribly. However, it seems that his wives take the brunt of the Dinah’s curse. Dinah says it herself, she scolds Jacob as if he were the child and she the parent. Her curses couldn’t have held more true!
I hate how Joseph comes back into Dinah’s life and demands that she go with him to visit Jacob. He had no right to demand anything from her. What were your opinions on Dinah’s return to her home land? I felt that Dinah should have seen Jacob before he died. Hate him or not, he was her father. Or atleast I felt she should have spoken to her brothers. They all begged Joseph for forgiveness when they found him in Egypt. Would they have begged her forgiveness too? When Judah recognizes his sister, why does he do nothing? No asking for forgiveness, no signs of remorse? The whole final meeting with her family had no closure.
I really enjoyed this book. I look forward to your opinions.
Thank you, Katie, for recommending this. Had you not, the cover on my copy would have put me off entirely. The publisher’s blurb states the book is “guaranteed to win the hearts and minds of women across the world”. It displays snippets from reviews by ELLE, SHE and EVE, and exhorts the potential reader to “find out why 1.5 million women have loved this book”. One wonders why the suffragettes bothered.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a pity something wasn’t said about the historical dimension of the book and the refreshing interpretation of events from Dinah’s viewpoint. The original story considers only the male view (his story) and is underpinned by chauvinism and racism. So I appreciated the author’s research and imaginative insight.
It was good to be made to go back to the bible. As a child, I read most of Genesis in failed attempt to read the whole of the old testament. I was glad of the encouragement to look again at the text and recognise it is a book for adults. I could not possibly have understood this section relating to Jacob and his son’s reaction to Dinah’s “rape”: or only at a very superficial level.
Nevertheless, I do think that as a work of literature “The Red Tent” would benefit from severe editing. Maybe it might have been better not to present it as a biography of Dinah. The title suggests a novel about the society of women in a certain time, place and culture. Had the author focused on Dinah’s “rape” and its impact on the red tent’s society, perhaps a series of different female voices narrating events from their perspective, I think it might have been more interesting, more powerful.
The prologue suggests the novel is written for the modern Western woman: “ . . .women with hands and feet as soft as a queen’s, with more cooking pots than you need, so safe in childbirth and so free with your tongues” who are “hungry for the story that was lost”. The story is fascinating, but to make it more relevant to today, I’d have liked a little more on the wider political and economic framework in which these events took place. Leah’s voice, Rebecca’s voice could certainly have provided that.
I lost patience with Dinah, with the emphasis on love at first sight, and with the lack of a map to clarify the characters' geographical movements. There were too many characters, and the recounting at the end of what had happened to Jacob’s family was meaningless to me and, I thought, unnecessary.
The style of writing varied in consecutive paragraphs from ‘literary’: “ . . . .we were met by a barque of surpassing luxury” to prosaic: “The lads were old enough to grow their hair, and they were good boys” which was inappropriate in a story told by one character.
Having said all that, if we were living in another time, when Hollywood made epic films from biblical stories, this could be made into a marvellous script. It would be a great movie, if it could be made now. Or could it be made now? What do you think ladies?
Thanks for this opportunity. Katie. I really had to work hard on this book, and it did me lots if good.
I couldn't get in all I wanted to say in one posting, either. This is clearly a thought provoking book
ReplyDeleteRegarding your question about the differences between the Canaanite women's and Jacob's wives attitudes to the need to prove virginity at marriage, Katie, it suggests to me that the Canaanite women were even lower down the social scale than those who were Jacob's responsibility. Nevertheless, it does seem that the the men in Dinah's family were more concerned abut their honour than they were about Dinah's well being. In fact, I felt that it was only when the women were gifted with unexplained supernatural powers that they were able to "get even". Rather like witchcraft in medieval Britain - almost entirely the preserve of women who were unable to exert power in any other way; and when they became too much of an irritant they were silenced by tortures like the Scolds' Bridle.
It occurs to me that my response to everything we read is coloured by a deep seated feminism that I had not really recognised until now. A little worrying to see this at this stage in my life. See how good this book club is for me?
Thank you, ladies.
Hello Ladies,
ReplyDeleteI have just lost a big post, arrrrgggghhhhh.
I will attempt to calmly try and remember all I said.
Firstly there was a big SORRY for the wild ride that 'The Slap' will take us on next month.
While I enjoyed the red tent I was also overwhelmed by the stories within stories, I felt there was just too much information and too much happpening for one novel.
In answer to your question of Jacob's non complaint of Leah in his marriage bed Katie, I feel it was because Jacob was aware that Leah possessed the better qualities of a first wife, she was a better cook, beermaker,and her organisational skills impressive Leah was the best choice for such an ambitious man. He also knew he could marry Rachel at another time.
I feel the reasons for the handmaidens becoming wives of Jacob was a power play in the red tent. Rachel sent Bilhah to Jacob to increase the majority of progeny in her camp and I feel Leah sent Zilpah to even the score.
I am afraid I have to disagree with you Katie about harmony in the red tent. It was said that Leah and Rachel only spoke through their handmaidens and tried to stay out of each others way. Let us not forget how Leah manipulated Rachel's fear of the marriage bed to gain the position of first wife. I imagine Rachel found this very difficult to forgive. The treatment of Laban's wife Ruti by the other women was cruel and uncaring and the bondswomen where treated like lesser women even in the red tent. The only unifying time seemed to be in childbirth when they did their time 'on the bricks'. I also found Dinah's rite into womenhood quite bizarre and beyond my understanding of 'why'.
I feel I have forgotten a lot of the other things I had written, will add if they come to me.
I am enjoying our book club so much as well and I find it wonderful that we are discovering new things about ourselves as well as sharing friendships and interesting novels. Thanks Ladies
Hello ladies,
ReplyDeleteI have recovered from losing my first comment although I still have trouble recalling all I said.
Sue I believe the red tent would possibly be better as a mini-series than a movie,as then appropriate time could be dedicated to all the stories within the novel, what do you think? One of those epics like Roots.
I continue to reflect on the novel and possibly it is my age, my upbringing or maybe my irritation with the reviewers that frustrated me with the women in the red tent. I also find it interesting that is the section of the novel I seem to focus on. The life of Dinah after this was certainly extraordinary and the stories of ancient midwifery fascinating.
Of course when reading these stories we reflect on the same experiences we have had in our own lives,and surprisingly many of the day to day activities of the women barring a few glaringly obvious details I can relate to quite well.
Good to talk again, thanks ladies.
Sue, I think it would have been very interesting to hear the other women’s opinions on Dinah’s rape! It would have really tied into the title of the novel. Maybe the book wasn’t appropriately named. I mean, it’s mostly the story of Dinah and has only fleeting moments about the tent. I think this novel could be turned into a movie or mini-series. Most novels are made into movies these days.
ReplyDeleteNancy, that is an interesting idea as to why Jacob married Leah first. As the first wife, she did have large control over the family joint. In addition I agree that Leah was the best choice in such an important role. As for the harmony in the tent, maybe harmony wasn’t the right word. There seemed to be a unity among the women in the red tent. They were all going through the same cycle of life or maybe it was just the unity in their love for Dinah.
I’ve started reading The Slap, and I’m curious to see what new opinions and insights we’ll find with this tale! Should we begin thinking of some more new novels since we’re almost at the end of our list?