"Nitta Sayuri tells the story of her life as a Geisha. In Memoirs Of A Geisha we read of a world where appearances are paramount; where a girl's virginity is auctioned to the highest bidder; where women are trained to beguile the most powerful men; and where love is scorned.
I have recently read the line "A woman's tale , imagined by a man." I am curious to see if Arthur Golden can speak to us in the convincing authentic voice of a geisha, perhaps we could compare Golden and Alan Brennert's attempt with his character Jin from our recent novel Honolulu.
Maybe we would also like to see if we can draw any conclusions or comparisons about the life of a geisha and that of many modern day women?
How much, if at all, does it appear that the choices for women in modern society have changed?
In what ways have women's choices remained the same?
Hope all is well with you both, hugs to you and yours.
Nancy
Hello Ladies
ReplyDeleteHope it's not as hot with you, Katie, as it is here. Jay has retreated to the house. I'm imagining people dancing in attendance with fans, cooling drinks, etc. and you sitting with your feet up. I hope the image bears some relationship to the truth.
And I hope the onset of winter is not too depressing. Nancy. You are about to beat us at cricket after we made derogatory remarks about your team, so your newspapers should be full of good cheer.
I'm suggesting we might want to read the books below:
Naomi Alderman: The Liars' Gospel
Julian Barnes: The Sense Of An Ending
Patrick Galen: A Perfectly Good Man
The first title relates to religion, again, but is very far removed from Mr. Findley's effort. We could put it last on the list so as not to read too many books with a religious theme too closely together. I've been making book lists, ladies, so if any of these titles don't meet with your approval, I can substitute it.
My copy of "Memoirs of a Geisha" has arrived in the library. I look forward to starting on it soon.
My thoughts are with you, Katie.
With love to you both
Sue
Hello,
ReplyDeleteYour book selection sounds very interesting Sue, it always amazes me how many great books there are out there. So many books, so little time !! In reply to your comment on the cricket, I am afraid I am in the very small minority of Australians who do not follow it, but I took special notice this week and have discovered we had a draw! I don't think that 's good for us is it?
Today is the 7th here and I have been thinking about you and sending prayers Katie, and then I realised I am a day ahead of you, so get ready for more thoughts and prayers tomorrow!!!
All the best I hope all goes well for you.
love Nancy
Hello ladies,
ReplyDeleteSorry for the early post, I know it is rare for me !!
I am still smiling every time I think of you Katie, how wonderful. How is baby Benjamin going ? How are you and Franklin ? Are you having much time off work ?
How is everything going with you and Jay, Sue? Have you moved into your new room yet? Hope you had fun decorating.
We are all well here and enjoying some beautifully warm late winter weather, just perfect for walking which we have been doing lots of lately. Generally we find a nice National Park walking track, beach or bush and spend a few hours away with a picnic, ahhh.
Anyway, on to our book, no spoilers in this, although I don't feel their are any real surprises.
I enjoyed reading about such a different culture and different way of life, again I find myself humbled by how little I know about our world.
I loved the beauty described in the story, from the cherry blossoms and gardens, the Shirakawa Stream, the decorative scrolls, the tea ceremonies and the elaborate designs of kimono and geisha dress. All this contrasting with the drama of the tipsy house on the cliffside and the poverty of wartime made for beautiful and dramatic settings and I imagine the movie makers created quite spectacular scenes. The underlying story, however was quite simple, and taking nothing away from Sayuri's hardships, a little predictable.
I feel Arthur Golden gave a reasonable account of the ugly jealous emotions and the true nature of geisha life at that time with the alchoholism,and degradation suffered by some of these women and also the ready acceptance of male dominance. I did find though he seemed to sanctify Sayuri and her decisions, similar to Alan Brennert with his character, Jin. It seems both Golden and Brennert may have fallen a little in love with their leading ladies and at times wore rose coloured glasses when telling their stories. haha
When comparing the lives and choices of geisha with modern women, I guess it depends on the style of women! I imagine high class escorts in our modern society lead fairly similar working lives to geisha, however they may have more choice and independence outside of work, or maybe not.
With all our modernisation of the world and advances in the rights of women it is sad to say for many women unlucky enough to find themselves in situations similar to Sayuri's, I don't feel their choices have really changed. Historically, prostitution and the exploitation of women has always existed, with the women as slaves or low class to the men procuring the favours, I don't believe this will ever be eradicated.
I found our story to be interesting and enjoyed the glimpses into another life and I am looking forwards as always to reading your comments.
Hello Katie and Nancy
ReplyDeleteHow are you both? Hope you, Benjamin and Franklin are getting the right amount of sleep and managing the steep learning curve that new life must bring. This must be such a wonderful time. Has Franklin had time off work? Are you inundated with visits?
The walks and picnics sound lovely, Nancy. It's been glorious here too. Yesterday we visited an old house with gorgeous woodland walks and an enviable walled garden. The sunlight and dappled shadows were beautiful, but you can feel the heat fading. Apples are ripening and fields being harvested. This week, the floor should be laid in the dining room - at last. However, it will be November before the stuff all we've ordered arrives. The process will have taken six months to complete.
To the book: fantastic detail about make-up appearance. The sheer weight of the costumes, the difficulty of walking, the time spent on make-up were graphically described. And the need to read character, be sympathetic and entertaining company, be able to hold one's drink and suffer sex were well conveyed too. I really don't know how far we've moved on. When I listen to my twenty-something hairdresser's tales it seems much the same, though I don't know about suffering sex. There's a limit to how personal we get in the salon. But prostitutes certainly suffer. And being sold into prostitution, as Sayuri was, happens on an international scale. Clearly, there's lots of that going on in the U.K.
I found the parts dealing with the impact of the second world war interesting, and the brief comments about Sayuri's life in America. Did she have a child or was she just speculating? And the fact she was able to re-create a Japanese life style in America was amazing, yet credible.
But I agree with you, Nancy, Sayuri was just too good to be true. I liked the fact that it was a physical feature, her eyes, which initially provided her with better opportunities. But her wit, intelligence and saintliness in the face of cruelty and exploitation made her, to use your word Nancy, sanctimonious. I had more sympathy for Pumpkin.
So, the book provided an interesting insight into another culture and its degradation of women. And a reminder that things haven't changed much. I worry that aspects of popular culture both promote and provide a vehicle for this degradation - song lyrics, porn, etc. Recently, a movement to ensure a woman remained pictured on sterling currency notes resulted in all kinds of sexually threatening messages being sent via Twitter to women involved in the movement. And high profile entertainment figures from the 1960s and 70s are now being brought to trial for abuse that went unpunished at the time because no-one listened to the girls involved. This might be regarded as a step forward were it not for recent trials suggesting criminal abuse on a large scale is going on now but people in authority are unwilling to act on the evidence of girls from dysfunctional backgrounds. Criminal procedures need changing.
I'm pontificating again, ladies. I apologise. An interesting book, Katie, thank you. Rather late, I shall now try to find "Infidel". It's a bank holiday weekend here, traditionally marking the end of summer. It's been a lovely few months.
Take care of yourselves, ladies
Love to you and yours
Sue
Hello,
ReplyDeleteHope all is well,
I agree with you Sue, I also sympathised more with Pumpkin and found her character more credible, even the hateful Hatsumomo's desperate and nasty actions highlighted the precarious situations these women lived with.
I found it interesting also your comment on popular culture promoting the degradation of women. It would seem perhaps in the light of all the publicity Miley Cyrus has received for her recent performance at the VMA's that sometimes we women perpetuate this degradaton ourselves.
I feel Sayuri may have had a son to the Chairman, wasn't that her reason for going to the US?
Re-thinking back over the story, was Sayuri in love with the Chairman or was he simply the most pleasant option? I find it quite difficult to understand the Geisha mindset, is it really as clinical and calculated as I feel it was portrayed in the story?
I have my copy of Infidel and I feel we are in for a harrowing story. I really don't mean to choose novel with so much abuse against women. I also find it interesting that our book club is about the only time I air my closet feminist views !!!! Thank you ladies.
Hello Ladies!
ReplyDeleteHope you are both well. Nancy, the walks and picnics sound wonderful! I’m a little jealous as we’ve been home bodies for the past three weeks. Sue, I’m glad the renovations are almost over. I hope you’re having some fun in retirement amongst all this work! We are doing well. Benjamin had a checkup the other day and the doctor was very pleased with his progress. Franklin’s boss is a very kind woman. She gave him a week and a half off to be with the baby, even though Franklin is still technically on probation. His job keeps new employees on a probationary period for a year. I am able to be off until the end of October. It is very strange to act as a house wife after being a working woman for so long. But we are both enjoying this little person so much!
I remember enjoying reading Memoirs the first time I read it. Why specifically I did, I can’t remember. Upon reading it this time, I no less enjoyed it but felt that my view of Sayuri’s success was different. I think I was very happy that Sayuri and the Chairman ended up together after the first reading. This time I view it more as Nobu’s loss than Sayuri’s success. In the tea room, the Chairman makes mention that Nobu has had few kindnesses in his life. At the end of the novel, there is yet another sorrow added to Nobu’s already difficult life. I guess I no longer saw Sayuri with the rose colored glasses that Golden was using.
In looking at Jin and Sayuri, both women were extremely lucky in their lives. The difference, though, is that Sayuri seemed to work harder for her outcome. In Brennert’s novel, Jin is more so always in the right place at the right time. In my opinion Sayuri seems to struggle more than Jin. She struggles to change her fate after she falls off the roof and Mother makes her a maid. Then Sayuri has to strive to become a great geisha to win Mameha’s bet with Mother. Finally Sayuri has her greatest challenge: to gain the affections of the Chairman. While both women have terrible adversaries, I believe I’d choose Mr. Noh over the cruel Hatsumomo!
I think the geisha and the “working” woman are quite different. Since prostitution has been around forever, I’ll compare to the higher class call girl/escort. Similarly, the geisha and escort seem to be prisoners. The geisha belonged to her okiya or her danna and the escort may belong to a pimp or escort service. Both seem trapped in these relationships. (This is somewhat surprising considering that without the geisha/escort, the pimp/okiya makes nothing.) But the greatest difference to me is that the geisha is required to work harder than the escort. Not only does she have to entertain a man, but she must know how to dance, play instruments, and study the intricate details of special ceremonies. This sounds positively tiring! The geisha is more of an artist, as the name means, who is prisoner of a way of life. The escort may be required to have more sexual relations but in comparison to the work of a geisha, this sounds simpler.
I’m afraid I haven’t been to the book store in quite awhile so I currently have no thoughts to add to the book list. Maybe one day next week, Benjamin and I will journey to the used book store and see if we can find something interesting. He was reading Memoirs with me. Unfortunately he seems to have very little opinion about the novel, I’ve asked (haha). Much love from the Chongs!
Hello ladies
ReplyDeleteSo pleased about the leave given to you and Franklin, and delighted about Benjamin's continued good health and developing literary skills. A wonderful time of life, Katie. Our love to you, Franklin and Benjamin.
Well, Nancy, going on my very limited experience in Asia, which did not include meeting any geisha or whatever the modern equivalent may be, there seemed to be evidence of both a happy acceptance that love arrives on sight accompanied by music and meaningful looks (e.g. Bollywood movies) and that human relationships need to be arranged for the maximum financial benefit of all concerned. An amazing mix.
A geisha certainly does have to be multi-talented. I wonder if the fact a man wrote the novel means that Sayuri's early unhappy sexual experiences seem to have only a superficial impact on her. Perhaps I'm just being cynical. After all, we have such wonderful husbands ourselves. There must be more nice men out there!
My copy of our next book awaits me in the library. i look forward to it.
Meanwhile, I have flooring in the dining room, but no furniture. All will be sorted out soon, I'm sure.
Love to you both
Sue